The game is currently in development and the goal is to release it in downloadable form for consoles and PC/Mac/Linux. There is no announced date and platform yet.
There is no publicly released demo at this point. There will be one when the game is released though, so please be patient 🙂 Thanks.
Just saw this on xkcd. I can’t wait till you release a demo. This is an amazing and novel concept and I’d love to be able to experience it. Good luck on the project 🙂
Thanks for that, was going crazy trying to figure out where this supposed demo was.
Exciting–here’s a vote for Mac OS release.
Look cool, will it be available on steam?
What’s the “best guess” on a release date? 😉
Probably on steam, yes.
The best guess on a release date is: “when it’s done.”
At first when i came here i was under the impression the game was created using the concept of the 4th dimension as “time”. I thought the the blocks would be “moving” blocks, but you in the present are unable to calculate where they will be to move onto them, but you have to extend into the 4th dimension and look to the future of how the level will look and go from there. I probably didn’t explain this very well but anyway, yeah that’s what i figured the game would be like.
To my disappointment it really doesn’t extend into the 4th dimension, its just a game where you can only access certain paths by using an ability… not as “novel” as Tahseenm believes.
Andrew, the game is about the fourth _spatial_ dimension, not time. I think you will find the concept is still novel.
You are aware, of course, that certain kinds of people have always been moving in more than three dimensions? But it scares the pants off three dimensional people.
Bring it on. I want to hurt my brain with this game! echochrome and Crush are personal favorites.
Perhaps you could look into a PSN release as well? I’m sure if you could impress the right folk as Jon Mak did with ‘Everyday Shooter’, you’d reach an even wider audience.
When I was in high-school, I was assigned a Pascal programming task of making a simple maze game. The initial code was for a 2-D map, but I eventually expanded it to 4-D. This has been something my mind has been wrestling with for 15 years…. I can’t wait to see your project and will offer my services with testing as well!
It’s true. Euclidean space only allows for indistinguishable dimensions (height, length, and width are all interchangeable if you rotate the figure). Adding a fourth spatial dimension is nearly inconceivable! I’m psyched to see how this turns out!
Would be cool if there was some kind of reminder mailing list … or so…
You can subscribe to this blog’s feed. http://www.google.com/reader
Best of luck on the project. Any platform you release on, I’ll find a way to play 😀
@Marc :
It looks awesome 🙂
It reminds me a bit of super paper mario use of 2D to 3D. But the comparison stops here, as the concept of a 3D projection of a 4D world, with power of swapping one dimension at will, is quite innovative.
It’s actually a lot more brain-challenging (in the cool way) and more rigorous mathematically.
And a fourth spatial dimension + time, you made in fact a game with five dimensions 😉
Personally, I think a 4th spatial dimension sounds a lot more interesting… But maybe I’m just drawn to the idea that you’ve created a visualization method for 4 dimensions and kind of wrapped a game around it. 😀
In an earlier interview you mentioned that making 5 and 6 dimensions might be a possibility; now that you’re wrapping up this game, do you feel better or worse about that idea? I guess what I mean is, are you getting sick of dimension-wrangling by this point?
Ahah. I’m not sick of dimension-wrangling… it’s a lot of fun. 5 or 6D? I’m still trying to figure out if there any more gameplay there, or if 4D has most of it.
Really looking forward to this, looks amazing in the videos. Don’t think I’ll be able to get my head around it though. I second a Mac OS X release, but I have Windows too incase the different platform releases are staggered (and I get impatient). Keep up the good work, you’re doing a grand job=)
Very, very interesting indeed! Looking forward to it, and here’s one vote for a native linux version!
it’s an interesting concept, that of phasing between related maps to solve a puzzle, granted not really new. i can remember games that were traditionally 2d that used a similar concept. such as kirby in some levels where you would have to change between seasons to get past a tree that was blocking your path in spring, but cut down in winter, or a waterfall that was frozen in winter, but passable in warmer seasons. there was also that indie game eversion where there was alot of swapping between darker and brighter versions of the same level.
i think however that adding another dimension to what can only ever be rendered in 3d (well really 2d if you wanna get technical about monitors and all that) would end up being a sort of smooth transition of level geometry that the player could move along, back and forth as if on a line. rather than simply flipping between 2 (or more) versions of the same level. what i think could be really interesting is if the was a sort of plane of alternate versions that the player could move about in, thus being a 5-dimensional puzzle.
or maybe i’m just excited and thinking too much =P
I think it becomes more complex when some objects belong to many maps at the same time and their movement needs to be considered in all the maps at once.
Yeah, the game’s idea is that you can see all the level versions at the same time, it’s not a discontinuous change between the versions.
Here’s a vote for Linux, Ps3 and PSP 😀 Best wishes!
Looks to be an interesting idea, I would also throw my hat into an OSX release. Though I really do not use my box for gaming, wouldn’t mind seeing a release on a console though.
So excited!!
+1 for Mac
Looks really cool, too bad there’ll be no Linux version (still, I’m hoping it’ll run in WINE).
RE: 4D gameplay
This may be an odd question, but how do you create/edit your game’s levels?
Do you plot them out purely mathmatically?
Do you have some sort of separate “shadow visualizer” or an editor built into the debug version of the game?
Something else entirely?
There’s a 4D tile system for making levels. So basically I make all the slices of the world, one at a time.
It must be amusing, the swarm of XKCD folks; presumably you expected this.
I’m definitely interested here; I’ll keep my eyes open for the beta, for sure. Best of luck getting it all finished!
I think the 5th and 6th dimentions people are refering to are a reference to a quote from the book, although certianly an intresting concept for a game. Further reading on the science of multi-dimentions: Flatland (obviously), and hyperspace, by Michio Kaku
Ill keep an eye out for it on the F-book
http://www.facebook.com/Miegakure?ref=ts&v=wall
If you need any pre-release testers… 😉 😉
Thanks for this hint ;). Nice concept idea, would love to play the demo (or even the full game).
Consider this as a vote for a linux version 🙂
I read it on xkcd, but found link on slashdot. 🙂 I can’t wait to play this game 🙂
Hello Marc ten Bosch!
I’ve grabbed your RSS feed. I’m looking forward to trying out the demo at the very least.
While folks are waiting on this game as I am, I’d recommend they go read the Flatland novella. It’s really great (in an enlightening way – not so much “entertaining”). Wikipedia has links to various sites where you can read it.
I just realized folks might think that my comment was an advert or something if they don’t know about Flatland (and missed the reference in the xkcd comic or the paragraph on the Miegakure site). Flatland is 19th century novella about considering additional spacial dimensions.
“the game is about the fourth _spatial_ dimension, not time.”
I believe adding a new ‘space’ dimension is equivalent to moving an object from a shape to another along time, which IS the fourth dimension.
Indeed, every game is already in 4D (elsewise it would be static).
Thus, I think you actually added a kind of ‘fivth’ dimension, but it can only be ‘foreseen’ or ‘imagined’ but not truely ‘experienced’ by the player…
Ok, I can’t wait to play it! Did you REALLY give Randall Munroe an early demo of the game?????? He’s a lucky bastard…
Well, let’s not argue about which number to give which dimension 🙂 So yes, including time the game is 5D.
That’s a mean trick to pull by mr. Munroe, making us believe that it’s out.
It’s such an awesome concept, and then you search for it in excitement only to find that it’s not available yet. D:
I’ll be waiting for this game to be out.
Hey Marc,
This looks like a wonderful game, and I can’t wait to play it. Some time ago I came across a series of videos that talked about stereographic projection of 4D shapes in 3D as a way to “see” into the 4th spatial dimension. Would that be a viable projection method for a game of this type?
I wish you the best of luck with the process of development, and I shall look forward to enjoy it after its release.
Cant wait for it to come out!
I’d like to add my voice for a reminder email option.
Did I say I cant wait 😀
Must… Have…
*Ahem* Awesome concept! I’m definitely grabbing this as soon as it comes out. I’ve been wrestling with the concept of extra dimensions for a while and this seems like an awesome opportunity to experience it more hands on. Keep up the good work! 😉
Looks like a great concept! I understand a native Linux version would not be feasible, but please test in Wine 🙂
Andrew and LP, you are both idiots.
Jeroen, would that be the “dimensions” series?
@ Mech:
I wouldn’t call them idiots, they’re just scientifically illiterate, unless being an idiot means to talk about things you don’t understand.
@Zerker:
Yes, indeed. Very interesting series, IMHO.
Looking forward to it…
Andrew and LP, time is “A” 4th dimension, not “THE” 4th dimension. Please read Flatland, or troll elsewhere.
Linux version plz. Microsoft is a sinking ship and Mac will continue to be the minority, Linux will fill the void. Go gets some Ubuntus!
I want to touch the fourth dimension, so my vote goes definitely to an iPad version!
Hello, I too came here via the XKCD comic and I think the idea of this game is brilliant. I’m looking forward to the demo release.
In that regard, I want to ask if there’s a new mailing list I could subscribe to. I’d like to be (auto-)informed when the game goes public. I know this goes against the omniscient XKCD spirit, but I do hope the game will run on good old winXP.
People have been requesting a mailing list, so I’ll make one.
It will run on xp.
Can’t wait for that mailing list. I would love to try this!
There’s now a mailing list. It’s on the right side of the page.
It is kind of confusing because whether it is the fourth dimension in physics or euclidean space is not apparent unless you see the game. It would be more appropriate to call it a game in R4.
I wish you luck and speed with your four dimensional linear algebra!
you must love the traffic you got :d
*Tries to be patient*
So, wait. 4 euclidean dimensions, one of which no one deals with in everyday life? that sounds like more fun than Portal.
Good luck and good speed with the development!
I actually thought of an idea very similar to this on my own. Essentially, you’d be a 4D object but you’d have a 3D view. You could rotate the other 3 axes about the y-axis, therefore allowing gravity to always be displayed. Eventually, I realized that simply rotating would be too hard to grasp and that you should simply be able to rotate at pi/2 intervals. Still, I never would be able to program something like that (98% of that being because I hate any programming language other than assembly…)
I’m guessing that this will be pretty similar, so that’s pretty nice. I’d also like to be able to wrap my mind around 4 dimensions but that probably wouldn’t be accomplished by this. Still, this is definitely something to look forward to!
Also, what is with all of these people being picky when it’s quite obvious from the screenshot, for example, that this is in R^4? Otherwise video games would have too many dimensions to count because of all of the variables, i.e. time, character’s position (x2 or x3), character’s speed (x2 or x3) character’s acceleration (x2 or x3), and if you’re using a really advanced engine, character’s jerk (x2 or x3) and of course other things like points in character movement (i.e. how far a character’s legs are) and apply this stuff to most objects and all sorts of other things.
Hi from another xkcd reader. The game looks very cool… I can’t wait to get my hands on it. I will probably be a Steam customer, if the demo proves to be fun to play.
Btw, I haven’t searched all your comments, but I’m surprised not to find a prominent answer to the question, “What does the title (Miegakure) mean?” From wikipedia I got the impression that it had something to do with Japanese gardens; but looking it up in a Japanese dictionary, I see it literally means “appearing and disappearing (being hidden)”. Which is apropos. Why not make that easier to find? Should be an FAQ…
I discussed the title a bit in interviews.
But, wasn’t it fun to look it up? 😉
Hey good luck with that!
Another vote for a native linux version!
How WOULD rotation work in four spatial dimensions? Can you extend the quaternion so you can composite a sequence of rotations together without gimbal-lock? What does gimbal lock even look like in four dimensions?
BRAIN ASPLODE
As far as the release date being “as soon as it’s done,” I almost want that to be far away, just to ensure quality. I hope they don’t feel rushed because of us. The game looks great. I’d love to be on the level design team.
The comic about this game was enough to make me read Flatland. I just finished it a few days ago. Needless to say it was brilliant. I’ve always loved the mental exercise of attempting to perceive a fourth dimension, and I can’t wait to see how this translates into a game.
XKCD led me to this. I am female, and this is one of the first computer games i’ve seen which make me want to play them! This is fabulous 🙂 Please please please bring a demo out soon (and the real thing!!!!)
WARNING: a bit mathy.
@Michael Spencer, maybe you’re familiar with this, but I’ll just put it here for others too. Quaternions can be used to represent rotations in 3 dimensions (3-rotations, let’s call them) without the problem of Gimbal lock, which only pops up in the Euclidean representation of 3-rotations. Gimbal lock occurs because Euler representation represents all rotations as a combination of 3 separate rotations (one along each of the three spacial axes). Quaternions on the other hand represent rotations as an angle of rotation along a specified axis, not a combination of 3 separate basis axes. So, with quaternions there is no problem of Gimbal lock in three dimensions.
Ok, so in 4D space (R4), if you extent the Euclidean representation, Gimbal lock is still a problem. However, using it is possible to describe rotations in R4 as the multiplication of two quaternions and in a sense, and this doesn’t have Gimbol lock.
Anyway, enough of the math talk. Apologies. 😛
@Marc, First off. Thanks for the awesomeness!! I’m curious as to how you came up with the 4D visualisation you did. It seems particularly brilliant. 🙂 That is, referring to the “extra” dimension being transparent. Do you have any ideas on how visualisation of more dimensions–say 5, 6 or even 10–could be represented in a similarly playable way? Also, it occurs to me that in Miegakure the “switching of dimenions” is equivalent to pi/2 rotations (oops! more math), any exploration of gameplay with arbitrary rotations, as mentioned briefly by a previous poster?
Thanks again!
Xelxebar:
Yes, let’s just say the collision detection code and the visualization code are unrelated, so there is an option to have any angle of rotation. I think there might be some good gameplay there but it’s obviously not for beginners. Same goes for higher dimensions.
As far as the way extra dimensions are “transparent” I’m not exactly sure what you mean but I made the extra dimensions invisible because it’s the most “realistic” way to define them. Flatland defines them the same way. As long as the player moves around 3 dimensions, these 3 dimensions can be a subset of 4 or 5 or any number of dimensions total, and everything would work the same way.
Yep, you can put me down for a PSN release also, and if you work in some kind of music visualisation, that would be perfect.
Sorry if you get asked this a lot but, anything like a release date yet?
It would be nice to see something new. The latest pics and info seem to be along the same lines as the first unveiling, over a year and a half ago. It sounds like you’ve been adding extra features beyond what’s seen in the video, but we’ve yet to see them. Please post some pictures, anything, to show off what you’re working on now. (If the features in the video are the extent of it, then I can go make something just like it (sans the pretty graphics) in a week at most. I don’t see where the trouble is, beyond level design.)
When this game finally comes out…
I think the internet is going to implode.
and then it will be up to us to put it back together.
One dimension at a time.
While folks are waiting on this game as I am, I’d recommend they go read the Flatland novella. It’s really great (in an enlightening way not so much “entertaining”). Wikipedia has links to various sites where you can read it.